[SueAndHerZoo November 26, 2017 at 3:04 pm Post count: 439]

#1060873

For those of you who have feel lousy while adjusting to a new dosage, have you ever found that taking a tranquilizer (if you have access to them) improves those symptoms? Out of desperation I have tried a few times now to take one when feeling crappy and it works like a charm. I wouldn’t think the physical affects I’m feeling would be relieved by a tranquilizer but they are. Does that mean it’s rampant anxiety running through my body making me feel sick or does it mean that dose changes affect our hormonal balance, and that’s why a tranq knocks it down a few notches?

It definitely does something hormonal to me because, and this one sounds weird since I’m 10 years past menopause, I feel ovulation pain during dose changes! I used to know every month when I ovulated because I would get a certain type of pain in the ovary and I still get that whenever I change doses.

Sorry if that’s TMI for any guys reading this but I’m sure you’ve all heard of hormones and women who release eggs on a monthly basis.
Sue

[AzGravesGuy November 26, 2017 at 4:23 pm Post count: 160]

#1185216

Hey Sue,
It’s not TMI, you’re discussing a medical condition.

Have you considered getting your lady hormones checked before a dose change and then again while experiencing the ovarian pain symptoms? I’m not sure what it would rule out but proving a connection or not could help the direction of your pain management. What does your OB say? I would think any ovarian pain post menopause would warrant further investigation.

I cannot say what causes your anxiety, or anxiety in general but I can attest to the efficacy of Valium on my nervous Graves’ mind. It has been a trusted medication during difficult times (not related to dosage changes) with few side effects.

I do believe anxiety and endocrine hormones are related. I know someone that had a pituitary tumor and they essentially had a break down after surgery with psychotic levels of anxiety and paranoia while their different hormone levels were off. It was Graves’ Rage on crack. Looney Tunes. Now…they’re fine, balanced on replacements. Like 2 different people.

[Liz1967 November 28, 2017 at 2:14 am Post count: 305]

#1185217

The mind is powerful. Are you anxious from anticipating problems with a dose change or is the dose change actually causing the anxiety? I have only had a couple dose changes but I was hypervigilant looking for the slightest differences in how I felt, which was anxiety provoking. Long before Graves, my TSH at yearly physicals would vary by 1 or 1.5 points and I never thought anything of it, but if it varies on Synthroid, we get all concerned. Also, you need carbs to make serotonin in the gut so if you have drastically cut carbs, that may be affecting mood. If the anxiety meds help, why not use them.

[AzGravesGuy November 29, 2017 at 5:34 am Post count: 160]

#1185218

Hi Liz,

Liz1967 wrote:

Also, you need carbs to make serotonin in the gut

Not exactly correct. Carbs release insulin, which triggers tryptophan which in turn stimulates a release of serotonin in the brain. (Foods rich in tryptophan do not effect serotonin as that tryptophan cannot cross the blood brain barrier.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8697046

Some brains release dopamine with this breakdown process as well.

It’s how people become food addicts and or use food as medication and end up obese. Same neuro pathways as drugs. Sugar and carb cravings can be a serotonin starved brain looking for a quick fix from insulin.

It used to be me.

There are many other and better ways (than food) to get your body to produce serotonin.

I live almost carb free now. What carbs I do eat are from the fiber in salad greens and broccoli. No sugar, no wheat, no excessive protein which the body turns into sugar anyway via glucogenesis.

I use exercise to release a controlled amount of adrenaline, which in turn stimulates my serotonin…works much better and lasts longer than food. It sounds complicated but really isn’t.

Practicing meditation regularly has been shown to do it as well. As have living sugar free, performing any daily exercise, supplementing B6, getting some daily sunshine, and even performing a random act of kindness. All these and hundreds of other things boost serotonin in the brain.

Carbs are the easiest but unhealthy if relied on.

Agree 100%….if the anxiety meds work…take them!!!!!

[Liz1967 November 29, 2017 at 7:42 am Post count: 305]

#1185219

I love how I feel and the weight I start to lose on less than 20 g carbs a day – for the first two weeks. Then I crash into major depression. I do practice yoga, exercise and try meditation (I fall asleep), but less than 50 g carbs a day and I am in trouble. I do think dopamine plays a big part for me in this process as SSRIs depress me whereas Wellbutrin works (dopamine). I learned this when I quit smoking 15 years ago. As I am reactive hypoglycemic, I have never done soda or candy or any kind of simple carb, so low carb works great for that but bad for mood. Maybe next time I need to lose some weight, I will try slowly reducing the carbs rather than starting out low. You are right that you do not need carbs for serotonin, but if you have been using carbs and suddenly stop, that would be a disruption if you are doing nothing else to replace it.

[AzGravesGuy November 29, 2017 at 3:55 pm Post count: 160]

#1185220

Hi Liz,

That sounds just like “keto flu”.

When your body starts changing its metabolism from glucose based to fat based there can can be a period of several days to weeks (usually starting about the 2 week mark) where you can feel like complete crap. My keto flu lasted 3 days until I found the fix.

Supplementing with Magnesium or Potassium BetaHydroxyButyrate Exogenous Ketones for a few days can lessen if not end these symptoms. FYI, they ALL taste really horrible, but they worked for me.

If you do go low carb again, please consider using Exogenous Ketones to get through the rough patch as you adjust. Once your body adjusts, you will feel just as good as before if not better.

I agree with dropping carbs in moderation, especially if your body is sensitive to change. I went cold turkey to jumpstart into sustained nutritional ketosis in 2 weeks. It was tough.
If I had to do it again I would take 4 weeks to convert instead of 2. Throwing your metabolism switch too fast can be taxing on many body systems….lesson learned.

[SueAndHerZoo November 29, 2017 at 7:08 pm Post count: 439]

#1185221

Great conversation… thanks you guys! I absolutely know that my occasional bouts of anxiety are physiologically based. I can be happy as a clam and fine with driving on highways, but when I start getting panic attacks and feel like fainting on the highway, I know it’s time to get my TSH checked. After decades of dealing with anxiety I know the difference between the type that occurs due to stressful situations and the type that has no valid basis except hormonal imbalance.

I know I should cut myself a break and take a tranq when I feel I could use one but something in me still tells myself to “white knuckle it” and try to tough it out. I have been on 20 mg. of Prozac for over 20 years and doc says it’s probably not even doing anything anymore but that quitting after all this time would be much worse than just staying on it. So I do. She’s even suggested increasing the dosage but I’d rather not.

I, too, believe I am a reactive hypo but my BG numbers are always fine. But before I gave up carbs they would rise and fall quickly which is what caused me to feel lousy. The numbers may not have been extreme, but I believe it was the RAPID rise and fall that made me feel crappy. That problem is pretty much gone now that I gave up carbs.

I agree, AZ…. the magnesium supplements are nasty but I finally found the ones that you can add to your drinking water and it’s almost palatable. (They call it raspberry lemon but that’s a stretch!) I also spray mineral oil on my skin at time and use a magnesium hand lotion.

Carb flu didn’t hit hard at all this time… perhaps because I had already given up gluten months before so it wasn’t that big of a stretch to give up the rest of my carbs.

I think it’s time to get my TSH drawn again…. I’m barely taking off any weight and I’m eating a lot fewer calories than I was when eating carbs. My body just doesn’t want to let go of the pounds lately…. perhaps my dose change wasn’t changed enough.

Thanks for the conversation – very informative!
Sue

[Liz1967 November 30, 2017 at 4:43 am Post count: 305]

#1185222

Sue, to check for hypoglycemia, you need fed not fasting blood glucose. You eat high sugar meal, then blood drawn every hour. Mine plummets at hour two. I cannot even eat Total cereal without nearly passing out a couple hours later. I get really anxious, then dizzy, etc. Thanks Rob for the keto flu info. I had heard of it but since the only symptom I get is depressed mood, I never connected it to what I heard about keto flu.

[SueAndHerZoo November 30, 2017 at 10:56 am Post count: 439]

#1185223

Liz1967 wrote:

Sue, to check for hypoglycemia, you need fed not fasting blood glucose. You eat high sugar meal, then blood drawn every hour. Mine plummets at hour two. I cannot even eat Total cereal without nearly passing out a couple hours later. I get really anxious, then dizzy, etc. Thanks Rob for the keto flu info. I had heard of it but since the only symptom I get is depressed mood, I never connected it to what I heard about keto flu.

Tried that. I keep my blood glucose monitor right on the table and have checked it before eating, while eating, an hour later, two hours later, etc. The numbers are always in range, but I’ve read that a rapid change, either way, is what causes my symptoms.

Your symptoms sound similar to mine: first sign is a dizzy spell immediately followed by anxiety (partly from the dizzy spell and partly because of the BG episode). Then within 3-5 minutes I find myself dashing off to the bathroom, and then after that, I crash and am totally wiped out.

Doesn’t happen since I’ve been eating ketogenically, and it feels wonderful not to be dragging myself back to the office wondering how I’ll finish the day.
Sue

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