[HonestBabe]

#1018255

Hi. I’m new to all this. I have ‘subclinical’ hyperthyroidism with some toxic nodules. My naturopathic doctor recommends a product called Thytrophin PMG and some herbals (lemon balm, passion flower, etc for calming). I don’t have any serious symptoms; in fact, I feel fine, but my Endocrinologist is recommending radio iodine treatment. Anybody out there take this Thyrophin PMG? Anybody have the RI treatment? I’m really confused as to how to proceed. RI treatment sounds very serious and risky and since I’m not struggling with symptoms, I have time to consider options. My doctor recommended this site but I’ve not been officially diagnosed with GD. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. HonestBabe.

[snelsen]

#1063538

Hi, I am someone who has had hyperthyroidism, a thyroidectomy and now TED>
I am at the Graves conference right now. Ski and Kimberly are here, too. Not sure how you got the nodules confirmed, or if you have the lab tests, TSH, T3, T4, or if you know those values. The best place to begin is a good endocrinologist who is familiar with Graves’, or hyperthyroidism. If you do have Graves’, there are not any alternative meds, and I say this literally and figuratively, not just in reference to naturopathic meds, that should be prescribed.

Be sure to get copies of your labs from the endocrinologist. If you are hyper, the first step your endocrinologist should do, I think, is to take a lot of time to explain Graves’ to you. The general course is to take an anti thyroid drug, carefully monitered by the endocrinologist, plus labs. There are three ways to go with hyperthyroidism: continue with the ATD, RAI or surgery. I would expect your endo to take some time to explain all of this to you. On this site, we talk about our experiences with Graves’, and we have learned a lot with our experiences with doctors.
In answer to your question, Grave’s is a disease. If you have it, you will always have it. Other drugs are not an option for getting rid of it.
Everyone on this site has had one of those treatments,and it is a personal choice. I think reading some of the good information on the home page of this site is a good idea.

The nodules are a separate subject. They are not that uncommon, most of them are benign and not a problem. But that needs to be decided by a surgeon who will first do an ultrasound scan, possibly some other tests, to better learn about the nodules.
If they see anything that worries them, they might do a very small fine needle biopsy of that node.
Do write again. I am sure you will hear from many others on this site.
Shirley

L

[Bobbi]

#1063539

I suspect what "toxic nodules" means is that there are clumps of thyroid cells that are going berzerker sending out thyroid hormone at toxic levels. If that is what is meant, then radioactive iodine treatment would kill off those toxic nodules, and leave the healthy parts of your thyroid intact. How could that be? With the discrete clump of cells over-producing thyroid hormone, the normal cells are shut down by the pituitary feed back mechanism. That mechanism is trying to suppress the production of thyroid hormone, and the normal cells are responding. The toxic cells would not respond. So when RAI is ingested the only cells that are active, are the toxic cells, and they would take in the radioactive product while the healthy cells would not.

It doesn’t matter much how you "feel." If your blood tests are showing excessive levels of thyroid hormone, you are losing muscle and you are losing bone. Your body is working too hard. And suddenly, one day, you will feel very very sick indeed if you allow that condition to persist. No natural supplement has been demonstrated to effectively control thyroid hormone levels, either. So some other treatment option is truly needed if you are hyperthyroid.

[mamabear]

#1063540

I looked up Thytrophin PMG, did you know that it doesn’t have ANY Thyroxine in it? This is simply a pill from dried Bovine (Bovine is an ungalate to include such animals as Cattle, Bison, Water Buffalo, African buffalo and Yak) thyroid tissue that has to be free of Thyroxine before being sold, so what good does it do you?
Oh it also says how Thyroxine from this "Thyrophine" helps but again there is to be NO trace of Thyroxine in this stuff before it goes to market. YOU MUST read the info that is out to see if this stuff is full of crap or not.

Unless your dr. has done a study with this medicine with patients that had no other help but this particular "suppliment" and the persons were doing just fine then I wouldn’t even consider it. Don’t mess with your thyroid it isnt worth it.

It is not FDA approved for any Thyroid purpose at all.
It can’t hurt you because it doesn’t have anything in it to harm you BUT it doesn’t have anything in it to help your thyroid either, so why bother.

What can hurt you is ignoring the issue which is the Hyperthyroidism. I’m not saying that adding suppliments to your diet to help support good nutrician isn’t a good thing but eating the right foods rich in vitamins, iron, calcium and other things we needs is the better choice.

I have never met someone that was using "Natural" things to help their Graves/Hyperthyroidism be in good shape. They had to go the route of using the medicines out there that were approved for the help in this sort of problem and they were much better for doing so. I would never allow a dr. to tell me oh use this natural stuff without doing research on it, I googled that and there is no way I would use it.
BUT I also don’t believe that you should run and get RAI either. YOU have to do the leg work and research it and see what works for you.

You can’t have both a naturopath and an Endocrinologist working on this problem. Because one will say the other is full of poop and vise versa.

Your Endo is the one who has seen you face to face so I can’t say that he is making the wrong decisions about the RAI, he can only state his opinion. Have you asked him about how he feels about you going on an ADT, like Tapzole(methimazole) first to see if that helps before rushing into RAI?

There are other options that are out there besides the RAI, it is up to you to stand your ground with your Endo and tell him you want to try those options before doing the RAI. If he says no….guess what!? Yep you can seek another endo that will listen to you and do what is best for YOU not for him.

The first endo I saw said RAI, I said no, he didn’t like that… I didn’t go back to him!
2nd endo was a great dr. he said try the ADT (at the time was PTU), and I did and it worked for me. Some people have to use Tapazole but that is between the ENdo and you to determine what is best for you.

it is scary to think that you dont have control BUT YOU DO! You have a right to say no and do your own research but please just because you feel ok doesn’t mean the damage inside isn’t being done. Don’t wait to long. Continue to ask questions here with other thigns you come across and we’ll help!

[optimist]

#1063541

There are supplements that can compliment your system while you are in remission, or while taking ATD’s. I will even go as far as to say that I know of one woman who does not take ATD and has done the holistic approach and she claims she feels better than she felt while on ATD. I’ve also met a few online who have just taken the holistic approach and baffle their doctors. I don’t agree that it can’t be done(remission thru supplements) I just say that it can’t be done for ”everyone”. Everyones chemistry is different. My friend orders from an online company, and she’s finally gaining weight, and feeling alive again. I have used the lemon grass(balm) oil and that has helped me in the past. It doesn’t hurt to try different things as long as you aren’t refusing treatment when you really really need it. Know your body!

[HonestBabe]

#1063542

Hi Everyone:
Thanks for all the great thoughts. I did get my latest blood test back and it confirmed no Graves Disease at this time. I had a biopsy this morning and will know the results by end of week. My TSH is still very low (.03) but my FreeT4 is still within normal range (.90). I realize that traditional medicine vs. alternative/natural medicine is always a challenge. It wasn’t so long ago that traditional medicine bashed acupuncture and chiropractic adjustments as hocus pocus and now there are studies and trials that say there is real healing going on, patients are getting better, and even the insurance companies are paying for these alternative treatments.

The Thytrophin PMG, as I understand it (with the thyroxine removed for a hyper thyroid) is based on ‘like heals like healing.’ Something that is also called ‘oral tolerization.’ The PMG (ProtoMorphoGen) action is for cellular regulation. I look at this as feeding my thyroid healthy thyroid elements. I don’t claim to understand all the engineering about this but then I don’t understand the mechanism of how Tylenol works either. And there’s other research on this ‘like heals like’ in diabetes and arthritis too. So, I’m going to test the waters here and see what happens. I will post again as things progress. Again, thanks to all. HonestBabe.

[Ski]

#1063543

Just make sure you watch your thyroid hormone levels. If they remain within the normal range, and stable, then terrific. Perhaps you do not have Graves’ at all, perhaps the cause for your hyperthyroidism was something else. If you do have GD antibodies, they can wax and wane for reasons no one understands, so things could *appear* to resolve, but it may not be for the reason you think ~ there is absolutely no evidence that other substances have an effect on thyroid hormone levels, and believe me, they’ve checked! So you need to continue to be vigilant about your symptoms and keep checking your levels to make sure you don’t put yourself at risk. If your levels do not truly resolve, then you need to discuss that with your doctor. One more thing about that ~ in a normal, healthy person, thyroid hormone levels vary VERY little over their lifetime, operating in an extremely tiny range within the normal range, so even bouncing around within the normal range, if levels routinely go from the highest part of normal to the lowest part of normal, that’s not "normal," and it’s hard on your body (almost as hard as having level consistently outside the normal range).

[mamabear]

#1063544

I have to reiterate this… Thyrophin has NOTHING to help thyroid issues. It has no Thyroid anything in it. In order to put in on the market it must have NO Bovine Thyroid at all in it.
You say you do not understand it just like you dont understand how tylonal works. There are many ways on the internet to learn about this "Thyrophin" and also how Tylonal works. Please please research any thing you put into your body. As kids we trusted out dr’s to give us Tylonal and we would be safe, well they said that about baby aspirin too and see what we have learned over time with that. It is up to US to learn not for us to take the word of a dr..
Please at least ask your dr. to give you at least 6 peoples names that HE/SHE given this too and it has worked. WHat I mean by worked is, remission while on it with no other medicines nor having other medicines before it.
Even if you have an ADT prior to getting off of it due to allergy or what ever other reason, it can help you go into remission. Yes it is rare but it does happen. I am proof!

The person that is on something other than the ADT that they went of could have gone into remission due to the ADT. Because we don’t give our bodies time to adjust to what we are currently on and switch to something knew we dont know what is working and what would have worked.

Also, TSH that is 0.03 is NOT in remission. I remember all of my numbers were just fine except my TSH which was 0.01-0.03 depending and the range was 0.3-5.5 (back in the day!) and i was confirmed Graves. There was only ONE time I had all of my levels out of range but other than that it was only always the TSH so I’m not a dr. but that doesn’t sound like you are confirmed NO graves. I’d get a 2nd opinion.
Please read up on Graves and ranges and just because the TSH is the only thing that is off doesn’t mean you are fine.

Research please.

[Michel]

#1063545

Hi….my husband was diagnosed with Hyperthyroid in Apr-09, at the first instance his TSH level was 0.01, FT3- 10.83 & FT4 – 4.37. He was recommended Neo-Mercazole initially but as it didn’t suit him (he started having diarrhea) so he was advised to take PTU (300mg) daily along with Betacap TR 80 (betablocker). For some time the TSH levels did fluctuate (it was 0.775 in May-10) but as the high intake of PTU started effecting his liver the doctor advised him to reduce the PTU daily dose. His TSH level started going down again.

As on today, he is taking PTU (100 mg) along with Betacap TR 40 but his Thyroid level are somewhat similar to what they were in Apr’09 i,e TSH: 0.003 (lower than when 1st hyperthyroid was diagnosed), FT3: 8.69 & FT4: 3.19. His LFT Profile is as follows:
SGOT (AST): 47, SGPT (ALT): 97, GGTP: 56.

Our doctor has advised us to go for Radioactive Iodine but we are not comfortable with that & are looking for an alternative natural treatment. Would really appreciate if you could suggest an alternatively natural course of treatment.

Thanks

[Kimberly]

#1063546

Hi Michel – Welcome to the Boards. I’m sorry to hear about your husband’s diagnosis.

Anything that we can do to make ourselves healthier overall, such as eating a clean diet and reducing stress, can certainly help with the healing process. However, it is VERY important to keep your husband’s hypERthyroidism under control, as leaving it untreated can cause bone/muscle wasting, heart issues, and a potentially fatal condition called thyroid storm. You will read books or see testimonials on the Internet about people who say they “cured” their Graves with some natural regimen. However, in some cases the disease actually goes into remission on its own…so there is no *proof* that the approach they used was responsible for addressing their Graves’ Disease or their hypERthyroidism. So we have to chose ONE of the conventional treatment options (drugs, surgery, or RAI) — all of which certainly have pros and cons.

If your husband does decide to pursue a different approach, you can do a search on this board for "surgery" or "RAI", to read personal stories from patients who have selected these treatment options. Obviously, just because one patient had a negative or postive experience with a particular treament option does not mean that your husband will have the same experience. One caution is that if your husband has any eye involvement with his Graves’, he may wish to consult an ophthalmologist prior to pursuing RAI. The studies are still somewhat conflicting, but there is some concern that RAI may worsen existing eye complications.

I hope that this is helpful — please check back and let us know how your husband is doing!

[Michel]

#1063547

Many thanks Kimberly

I want to know if a switch over from PTU to Tapazole or Methimazole will be of any help. I intent to meet the doctor soon to discuss further course of treatment & would like to have his advise on Tapazole or Methimazole but would like to do some research before that.
We are very apprehensive about RAI & doc has ruled out surgery as they feel is young enough to undergo the surgery. I’m planning to include cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower & kale regularly. I hope it will help a bit.

[Bobbi]

#1063548

Michel, you have run up against a "folk medicine" commentary somewhere, and it could put your husband in danger. He cannot possibly eat enough kale, cabbage, etc. to have any measurable impact on his thyroid hormone levels. Yes, they contain a substance called goitrogens, but only in microscopic amounts. As a result, there is NO good research that says eating them does anything beneficial other than providing nutrients that we need. By all means add them to the diet — just don’t expect them to control thyroid hormone levels in the normal zone.

Switching from PTU to Methimazole might, might make no difference whatsoever, unless your husband hasn’t been compliant taking his PTU when he should. It is difficult to take PTU, I think. I was on it, and I had to space my doses out every eight hours, rigidly, in order to get the right control over my thyroid hormone levels. If I spaced things out longer, there would be spikes of too much hormone. The methimazole only has to be taken once a day, typically. So that can be a help.

Both drugs interfere with the ability of thyroid cells to make hormone. PTU also works to suppress the transformation of T4 into T3 (the thyroid hormone form used by cells), so it can be a bit more help than methimazole in some cases.

Those hormone levels, though, have to be CONTROLLED. If the antithyroid drugs aren’t working properly (and they did not in my own case), then the thyroid has to be removed. I know it "sounds" drastic. But if the thyroid is making your husband ill — and, with Graves, it is doing that — then removing it will put him back on a track to recovering his health over time. Keep in mind that tens of thousands of people have had their thyroid removed, and have lived healthy lives. We can, and do, live well without our thyroids.

[Kimberly]

#1063549

Just a quick note on liver issues and PTU – while both methimazole and PTU have been associated with liver issues, methimazole has the safer track record of the two.

Diarrhea is not one of the common side effects that I’ve heard of with methimazole, but being in a hypER state can in itself cause frequent bowel movements. The idea of switching to methimazole would at least be worth a conversation with your physician before you make a final decision.

[Author]

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