[SueAndHerZoo]

#1059794

For some reason it had never occurred to me over the past 6 years but I’m rapidly learning this time around just how much my thyroid is causing me anxiety, often bad enough to render me non-functional. When I was first diagnosed 6 years ago I took it very lightly: big deal, overactive thyroid, pop a pill and be all better. This time around, it is rocking my world and not in a good way. I’ve been leaving work early, I’m pretty much a pacing zombie at home, and my blood pressure (which has always been low) keeps skyrocketing. I’ve always been obsessive about researching and learning what’s going on with my body and in the past few days I’m seeing just how much Graves is related to anxiety and panic attacks. I’ve suffered with panic attack since I was 16 and it’s been the most major constant in my life… it’s always there threatening to take me down.

Through all the reading I’ve been doing the past few days I can’t help but wonder if I could get rid of (or greatly reduce) this dark cloud by having TT. Granted, it’s not an easy solution and I’m guessing there would be pain, discomfort, fluctuating levels, lots of bloodwork and adjustments, but so what? If I could eventually get to a place where the over-the-top anxiety is no longer a part of my life, it would be SO worth it! I am giddy and excited at the thought of living the remainder of my life somewhat like a “normal” person without having panic attacks overshadow every aspect of my life.

Am i grasping at straws and being unrealistic thinking that a TT might bring down my anxiety? Fortunately for me my panic attack have never affected my blood pressure before but for the past week it has been going through the roof and I’m now thinking 95% of that is anxiety-related.

Would love to hear others thoughts, and if anyone has noticed their anxiety decrease after removing their thyroid I would love to hear about it.

Sue (grasping at a possible light at the end of a tunnel)

[vanillasky]

#1177628

Sue, we aren’t doctors here so I wish I could tell you it would get rid of your anxiety problems, but I certainly am not sure.

I will tell you from my personal experience that while being in a hyper state, yes, anxiety is worse and very bad. I feel like climbing the walls. However, then I have menopause and that is anxiety too.

The trick is to try to find out WHAT is causing it? I am a firm believer that the mind controls a lot of this stuff and what I have learned from my own experience, is that a lot of it is mind over matter.

you have to look at yourself and try to figure out what exactly are your triggers. Now, I do not believe in shrinks. Never have. In my opinion, they really don’t help. they just throw depression pills at us and say “have a nice day.” I don’t believe in SSRI’s, so I do take Klonopin daily. .50 mg. This takes the edge off for me but right now my Graves’ is in remission, so what should I blame it on? menopause? or is it just daily problems? I am not happy with the way I feel, I have a husband out on disability, the dog is a pain in the butt, my house needs fixing up, I can’t work because of the Graves’, menopausal mix and horrid hot flashes. But when I went for counseling, she blamed it all on hormones. Who figures?

And then there are days when I’m cool as a cucumber. This makes me thick it is definitely the fluctuation of hormone levels be it thyroid or estrogen, estrodial, progesterone, etc.

But then there are days where? I can be very dangerous. Out of control. We call this “Graves Rage” and many of us here have it or have experienced it. Could it be Graves Rage that is making you feel the way you do?

Karen

[SallyMay]

#1177629

I can’t say whether or not a TT would ease anxiety or reduce panic attacks. I experienced more anxiety/depression AFTER my surgery but I suspect that is due to anxiety I had surrounding the surgery and the resulting hypothyroidism (I may eventually talk about this elsewhere on this forum). I was on medications for years and then had ablation. They had a tough time controlling my levels after ablation. In the course of my disease, I would only feel anxiety/angst when my levels were elevated; so much so, that I could recognize when my symptoms were associated with elevated thyroid hormones. I might suggest keeping a journal about what events and thoughts are occurring during the time are you struggling with anxiety and then compare them to your lab work to see if there are any consistencies. It may be a combination of thoughts, events, and elevated thyroid hormones.

[SueAndHerZoo]

#1177630

Hi Karen, thanks for your thoughts.
We are on different pages regarding counseling and SSRI’s . . . both have helped me tremendously throughout my life. I have been on an SSRI for over 20 years now and it has saved and changed my life. Several times during those years I have tried to slowly wean off of the meds, VERY slowly, and still when I got to a certain level the panic attacks returned with a vengeance. My doctor explains that it is a chemical imbalance and that therapy cannot talk it away (been there, done that) and that I should think of it as any other disorder that requires medication, such as diabetes. It can’t be willed away. The fact that I had tics and OCD as early as 6 tends to make me agree with him.

My panic attacks have been very well under control for the past 20 years (and that’s when I started to have a life) but when the thyroid races, they come back and cause more panic because I never want to live that way again. Yes, the ones I’m suffering are probably 50% the thyroid and 50% self-induced. But if I could remove the thyroid factor I could possibly go back to not even thinking about anxiety.

So that’s where my thought process is today. I will talk about it with my endo (April 15th) and see if it’s a reasonable expectation or only a light possibility. Like I said in an earlier thread . . . for someone who’s suffered with anxiety and OCD all her life, this is NOT the disease to have.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts…. I take everything into account and it helps me come to more reasonable (hopefully) conclusions.

[Gabe]

#1177631

Sue, I believe everyone has to do what’s right for them. I’m leaning to TT also. Have my surgical consult scheduled for June. Sounds likes an eternity but it should give me time to get my levels up and make sure I’m not being overly impulsive.
I agree that the anxiety, rage, and inability to have a focused thought are the symptoms that are distressing for me. Can’t fathom years of this.
Some of the TT experiences on this forum have helped me come to a decision.
So for me when the anxiety or rage gets very overwhelming, which thank goodness is not a daily occurrence, I pop a Xanex and move on.

Karen F.

[Stymie]

#1177632

Hey-

I had the RAI done in sept 12. So I’ve not been HyperT since about October. Odd thing is I never had anxiety while being hyper. Even when I was extremely hypo. I started synthroid sometime the end of Novmber. I started having anxiety mid January. EXTREME anxiety, can’t get out of bed kind.

I’ve had one anxiety episode before this and that was 10 years ago.

I’ve never been an anxiety kind of gal.

I’ve heard a tale that once you get your levels within the normal range all this should dissipate. I don’t know if I believe that. I feel it’s (just my humble opinion here) these synthetic hormones wreaking havoc on my body. Why didn’t I have anxiety when my TSH was 48? Or when it was <.001? Only once I was on synthroid for 6 weeks did this really kick in to high gear. I am now on Tirosint. The anxiety has dissipated some. But when it’s that time of the month I feel it flare once again. Hormones again. I have no clue what the answer is. I’m just a regular person, trying to get back to my regular life…. Diane.

[vanillasky]

#1177633

Sue, just a question: if you are taking depression pills for 20 years and have anxiety now, why do you think that is? Also, what has the counseling done to actually help you? I would be interested to know.
and one more question: how does your doctor know it’s a chemical imbalance? is there a test for this? Studies show it is theory only. I would be interested in finding out if there is a blood test for this as I would gladly take it!

Karen

[SueAndHerZoo]

#1177634

Hi Karen.
I’ve never been depressed, per se….. the SSRI is for panic attacks and OCD. I was just about agoraphobic at one point and the OCD rituals were taking up much of my days.

I tried counseling for years to beat the panic attacks and OCD but to no avail. The therapy helped me with many, many other aspects of my life and helped me make lots of major decisions throughout the years. I’ve also been to a marriage counselor (with my husband, of course) who I credit with helping us be happier than we ever have been before.

No, there was no scientific test to determine that my OCD and panic attacks were a chemical imbalance…. it’s just that years of therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy did nothing for me but the meds did. They were a miracle. I guess you could call it process of elimination.

I really don’t know if there IS any type of blood test for chemical imbalances in the brain and really have no desire to have one. I spent the last 20 years being panic free, until a few weeks ago. Hope that answers some of your questions.
Sue

[vanillasky]

#1177635

Hi Sue! thanks for answering all my many questions. I am glad they worked for you.

My story: I took them for hot flashes when I began my menopause. And I don’t know if we can name brands, but let’s just say they start with “L” “Z” and “E” I had a terrible time. Hallucinations, sweating which made the hot flashes worse and I had headaches beyond control so I called the office one day and told them that “E” was not working. Also, I had been told to up the dosage my second week, which I did and lost weight! LOL! I was told I might gain weight taking it but I was so nauseated, I could not eat anything.

When I tried to get off of them via doctor’s advice, I got very, very, ill. Suddenly I was bedridden with headaches, vomiting and hallucinations so great that I am not sure for those that have faith (I do) but a woman in her late 50’s came to visit me and stood next to my bed. She had on a pair of old black shoes, a polka dot dress and a sweater over it. She stroked my hair and the veins in her hands made them look very old.

After this went on for two days, the vomiting stopped and I felt normal again. I then found some photos of my late grandmother who died in 1957 and that was the woman at my bedside. I had never met her.

Call me crazy, but I think the pills either did that or maybe she came from above? That was the only good thing that happened to me on brand “E.” so since then, hot flashes never abated and I still have not found the right recipe to make me feel well, however I am happy if they helped you!

Karen

[AzGravesGuy]

#1177636

I was put on Cymbalta for my anxiety/depression 3 years ago and when I was taken off of it (after 6 months, no change in symptoms) I suffered a miserable month of hallucinations, fatigue, anxiety, atrial fib, and body pain. The friendly neighborhood ER got to know me on a first name basis then. I too had what I can only describe as an ethereal visitation. I chalk it up to fried neurotransmitters and my brain trying to comfort me, the self preservation mode switching on in the subconscious.

The neurologist the ER had on call said that some new meds are given regardless of what the short or long term effects are and many companies have been sued for endorsing off label use. (More written scripts means more perks for the dr and they may not always have your best interest in mind, but a quota from the drug company instead.)

Neurontin was the last big one to make the news for this “off label” endorsement and abuse. (I was on that too at one point.)

I was put on Cymbalta to shut me up instead of running appropriate bloodwork, or addressing the behavior itself that would let anxiety bloom into full blown panic. (Also before the Cymbalta I was given Serzone, Depakote, Seroquel, Buspar, Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac, Tofranil, Wellbutrin, Meridia, and a few more I can no longer remember, nor want to. If there is an ssri, snri, or sndri out there, I have been put on it.) I later addressed this with my psych and he denied any connection to GD and panic, despite the published study excerpts I handed to him that clearly stated GD can cause everything from panic to full blown psychosis like symptoms. (The Cymbalta clock on his wall should have been a clue, or his Lexapro stationary, or the Effexor stress ball on his desk…he was not working for ME, his job was to write scripts.)

When this detox ordeal was finally over guess what? My GD remission was over and I was back hyper in full force. Even with this info, my psych was more than eager to push another pill on me. This time it was lithium. I declined, at this point drawing the conclusion that I was not crazy, bipolar, or had GAD, but it had to be something else. As my levels came down (with methimazole) the symptoms that led me to see the psych lessened, became more manageable and eventually stopped.

What I learned from all of this is that despite the chemical/hormonal cause for the anxiety was gone, I had to retrain my mind to stop the behavior of letting an uneasy feeling become full blown panic. Finding the skill to look at things objectively instead of feeding into the emotion was difficult at first but now it is automatic.

Even with this last bout of hyper, anxiety yes, panic attacks….no.

I still have a bottle of Valium 5mg that I have used occasionally in the last 2 months. It was my “last resort” pill for when the meditation was not working and I could not shut down enough to sleep. It worked.

Growing up we are taught to have a blind faith and trust in doctors. The ugly truth is that some do not have our best interests at heart. I now look at them like I would an unfamiliar auto mechanic. Know your condition before you sign the estimate, beware the cookie cutter treatments, research everything you can. I trust my MD because he has been nothing but brutally honest from day one. I trust my pets’ vet because we were friends before I even had pets. My mindset has evolved that any doctor that treats me has to prove themselves competent first….and yes, I ask test questions. Lol!

[vanillasky]

#1177637

BRAVO Graves’Guy. I felt like I wrote the post myself!:o

I won’t knock anyone who takes those meds if they work for them. I just have to question what I call the “guinea pig” prescription.

If there is no blood test, and I was also told before, there is not, then how do they really know where the chemical imbalance in the brain is or takes place?

For me it was a Mindfreak (thanks Criss Angel) and a mind-altering drug. It did me no good and even though I took about 4 different brands, they basically all did the same thing to me.

I know a woman that has her 12 year old on Zoloft. the doctor gave it to her because she told the doctor “I don’t fit in in school.” I don’t believe in this. No 12 year old child should be taking an anti-depressant. I think it’s ridiculous.

It’s become somewhat of a pet-peeve for me so sorry if I have trouble getting off the soap box, but those pills infuriate me! I hate them! LOL! But again, if they work for someone, I totally agree they should take them.

Karen

[Naisly]

#1177638

Here is a little story about my experience.

I have 3 kids, the oldest being 23. Since he was in kindergarten doctors and teachers insisted he had ADHD. I fought back and said no – there is something else wrong. But they all insisted that he take his medication before he was allowed back in school. So I fought, and read, and studied and finally by the time he was 14 I saw some light — It looked like he had Asperger’s. But again, no one would listen and put my family through a great amount of inspection. By this time I was also fighting for my 8 year son, who also showed many of his brothers symptoms.

Now, when my 8 year son was born, he was premature by 5weeks. And every time I went into the doctor with concerns, they would immediately blame it on the fact he was premature. ie: Not talking, no crying, I even swore he had hearing problems, because he just would not respond. Yes ok, it is every parents dream to have a newborn sleep throughout the night and never fuss. I even had a doctor ask me why I was complaining. But by this time, he was my 3rd child, call it mothers intuition — but something was wrong.

Lets skip to more recently. For the past 2/3 years I have been working with social services, doctors, physiatrists, and hospitals among others to find out what was wrong with my youngest son who was then 14. My son was now suicidal, and everyone said he was ‘depressed’ He started to self medicated by smoking a lot of pot. The doctors put him on a anti depressant, he could not function at school, they did everything to treat him for sever depression. Even though I kept fighting and trying to explain to them something else was wrong.

They sent him to a hospital for depressed kids for 3 months. They seemed to do everything BUT look for the answers. Now, I hate pills, I don’t believe in them (to a degree) and I certainly did not believe they were good for my son to take, after all I didn’t believe depression to be the cause. My son did not like them either, and said they didn’t help — so we both agreed he didn’t have to take them. Of course the doctors were not impressed but so what, my son and I needed the TRUTH, not a cover up.

Finally, after years of fighting we find what we are looking for — This past October he was tested for ASD and diagnosed, he was 17 by this time. Apparently this clinic he was tested in is very hard to get into (and the only one in this province). Meaning, very few kids get in, because they need to make sure 100% that these kids are not suffering from — depression, anxiety, abuse etc. and the few that do get in, only a couple kids per year are actually diagnosed with ASD. Reason being, there is no actual blood test for ASD and for those who are unfamiliar, it means Autism Spectrum Disorder.

My older son who is now 23, recently I took back to a physiatrist, and he diagnosed him as having Asperger’s. I did shorten this quite a bit, but my point is you need to FIGHT, never let go. I have learned to advocate for my children as well as for myself. After almost 20 years I have learned a lot about how the brain works, reading, researching, and asking questions. I had to, no one else was willing.

For me, I do have OCD and a major phobia with ingesting anything. But I also have a ‘gift’ I can see patterns very clearly, and no not quilt patterns Lol. For example (and this is hard to explain) but, I will try – I can read, lets say 10 research papers on GD, and patterns will start to emerge. Problem is, I can see it clearly but have a difficult time explaining it and this is somewhat GD and OCD related for me.

Ok, so the moral of the story is – We are all born with our chemical balances in place. There are things in our life that can alter this. Stress is a big one (there was a study done on this and it showed that countries which had trauma like war etc, had a large influx of GD cases) With GD the hormones are part of this balance and some people are misdiagnosed for years, 20+ years in some. But you see what I have learned with my sons is that medication for anxiety/depression usually only covers up the underlying issues – They don’t actually fix the imbalances. It could be anything such as low vitamin D, low iron, adrenal glans, anyone of these low can make you feel tired, depressed, anxiety, headaches etc. Having these checked is important for graves patients, because these are known to be effected from this disease.

And this is why it can be tricky for anyone with ANY type of thyroid problem, because as I said we are born with set numbers and to find these numbers is like looking for a needle in a hay stack. This is why it is important for us to be educated and advocate for our health, because only we know our bodies, we know when something isn’t just right.

So you see, I’m not only advocating for myself, but for my 2 sons as well.

[Naisly]

#1177639

Blah! Ok I forgot to add the most important thing — (By the way this is just a ‘graves thing’ the forgetting stuff. You will hear me saying that through out the day, “Oh its just a graves thing” Doesn’t work so well when I bounce cheques because I ‘forgot’ to put money in the account – in that case I get my partner to phone the bank begging for mercy Lol.)<--Positive Alrighty, Back to the important part – The point I was trying to reach (finally at 2:30am I remember, better late than never )<--Positive I had to learn a lot about anxiety and depression and how to cope. While we are hyper, our brains are working a million miles an hour, we are in fact hypersensitive to our surroundings. This is the same as a autistic mind. I had to remove things in my sons surroundings for example, if I was talking to them I would turn off the TV or radio. Autistic people will be over stimulated, this is what causes them to go into a fit. I wrote this in another post: I do have a hypersensitive personality to begin with but I can imagine for those who don’t, how this must feel to them. The doom and gloom for me is because we can’t focus, we hurt, we ache, we have no energy, we worry, we can’t even do meticulous small tasks like write our name, we can’t, we can’t and this in it self would drive anyone crazy. Because of that hypersensitive feeling – all those tasks that lay a head with a feeling of no control over them. This was usually my breaking point, that point of no return – Graves Rage. It’s very much like being tortured every minute of every day – Enough to break a persons will. I think, that if family members can help by removing some of the triggers – Like negativity and remove a lot of the daily stimulation that goes on in every house hold would help. By stimulation I mean things like, the dog needs to be let out, the phone is ringing, visitors are coming and going, the TV is on, the dishes need to be done, the son is jumping on the couch again etc etc. Most people can deal just fine with this going on around them and think nothing of it – for us, we can’t deal with most of these tasks at times because of the physical aspect, but what puts me over the edge is I’m thinking and seeing all of this in one thought. Think of the movie the Exorcist and how her head was spinning – That’s how I feel. I would watch if your being overly negative because that might be near your breaking point. And see how I put the words <--Positive up top? This is what we must do, turn all negatives into positives, and it is something I must do everyday with my sons. All right, now that I got that off my chest, off to bed!

[Kimberly]

#1177640

Thanks, all for sharing your experiences here!

@Sue – Surgery is certainly a valid treatment option, although there’s no guarantee that you will see relief from your anxiety issues.

If you are interested in learning more, this site is a nice resource from the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons:

(Note on links: if you click directly on the following link, you will need to use your browser’s “back” button to return to the boards after viewing, or you will have to log back in to the forum. As an alternative, you can right-click the link and open it in a new tab or new window).

http://endocrinediseases.org/thyroid/surgery.shtml

Also, I can’t recall if I’ve posted this video for you, but it’s from a presenter at our 2012 San Diego conference. It goes into some of the overlapping symptoms that can occur between Graves’ and other disorders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB8_5rbCso8

Take care!

[ChristinaDe]

#1177641

Hi Sue! This is just my experience…but the short answer for me is a resounding “YES”…surgery reduced my anxiety. Even now, while going through my 1st post-surgical med adjustment for a hypo swing (I’m roughly 2 months post-op), I have no anxiety, depression or cognitive symptoms. Those were my worst symptoms going into it.

I know that there are probably some who continue with anxiety post-op, we’re all so different in our presentation & in what works and what doesn’t. I’m just ONE experience. But in my case surgery put a quick end to my mental symptoms. However, I never had any issues w/ anxiety pre-Graves’ & hyperthyroidism so I feel pretty confident that mine was 100% related to my sick thyroid.

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