[HonestBabe]

#1018215

I’ve got hyperthyroidism. I just learned from a doctor (an very reputable M.D. who does acupuncture) that acupuncture along with Chinese herbs have had success in treating a hyper thyroid. Not sure what to think of this. Makes one curious to hear these success stories. Anybody out there ever try acupuncture for overactive thyroid? My very traditional medical insurance company pays for acupuncture, which I consider a vote of confidence right there. The old thinking that it was some Eastern hocus pocus is no longer the case any more. Acupuncture stimulates the energies that run through the body for healing. I really want to heal this, not just treat it. Please post if you’ve had any experience with acupuncture and/or Chinese herbs. Thanks. HonestBabe.

[Bobbi]

#1063309

My daughter has a Masters in Chinese medicine, and is trained to treat people using acupuncture and Chinese herbs. I asked her about this issue several years ago. At that time, there were no (repeat NO) double blind studies to determine the effectiveness of acupunture and Chinese herbs at treating hyperthyroidism. She believed she could treat hyperthyroidism — but told me that since she tailors all treatments to the specific patient, that there was no way to use double blind studies to verify effectiveness.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen too many treatments that were supposed to be effective, only to find out that when subjected to scientific proof, they were shown to be ineffective. For example, for decades post-menopausal women took estrogen replacement. It was supposed to keep our bones strong, and strengthen out hearts. It was BELIEVED by practitioners to do this. When it was subjected to proof however, it was determined that the ONLY benefit to the replacement hormone was maintaining bone — and that there are safer ways to do that. Heart benefits were non-existant. And there was increased levels of stroke and breast cancer. That is only one example. There are others.

Whether or not an independent practitioner "believes" a treatment works, if it has not been subjected to OBJECTIVE studies, and been validated by more than one set of researchers, it is impossible to know whether or not it is effective. Acupuncture does indeed work, and has been proven to work, to block pain channels, to improve the chances that someone with a heroin addiction will kick the addiction; to improve the chances of women to have babies after in vitro procedures. All of these are non-life-threatening issues. But it’s effectiveness against hyperthyroidism–a life-threatening condition — is, as yet, unproven, as far as I know.

In my opinion, hyperthyroidism is much, much too dangerous to experiment with acupuncture and herbs when there are proven treatments, known to work, and work well to give the patient back their health. By all means, try it, and the herbs, ALONG with a proven treatment option. It undoubtedly cannot hurt. But it might hurt you mightily to only do acupunture.

[HonestBabe]

#1063310

Thanks, Bobbi. Very helpful. Yes, I’m aware there are no clinical trials out there that prove acupuncture/herbals heal thyroid issues. But I like to remain cautiously open-minded on that issue. That’s why I posted the question out to the community. I don’t see much good in taking Chinese herbs/acupuncture along with another "proven treatment" since that really won’t give me any clear information on what is really giving me results. For my situation (which is mild hyper at the moment but with nodules), the endo doctors are telling me to do RAI to kill the nodules, which effectively trades off hyper symptoms for hypo symptoms and then take hormones. That’s not a cure. That’s treating the disease. Call me crazy, but I’m looking for a cure. The body can heal and does heal all the time. Forgive me, but I sometimes don’t get this idea that we have no alternative but to kill something in order to get healthy. My husband had a stent put in his major artery in his heart. Over the years, the stent slowly collapsed and his heart grew several healthy bypass arteries around the problem area of the heart. Amazing! I could hardly believe it when the cardiologists explained to me how the body has these remarkable and beautiful healing abilities that demand respect. Who would have thought the body can grow more arteries spontaneously when one artery is in trouble. So, that’s why when my M.D., who does acupuncture, says that he’s had ‘quite good success’ with healing hyper thyroid patients doing acupuncture with Chinese herbals, I don’t want to close the door because it’s unproven in a medical journal. I want to find out more information. I want to think positively, proceed cautiously. Anyone out there that is following this, please post your thoughts or experiences. If I end up choosing acupuncture/herbals, I’ll update you with my results. HonestBabe.

[Ewenme]

#1063311

Hello honestbabe,
Since you obviously value honesty, I must tell you I agree with Bobbi’s advice. When there is no proof out there that acupuncture is a valid treatment for hyperthyroidism, being ‘open minded’ is no longer an option in my opinion. A lot of us would jump at the opportunity to be ‘cured’ of this disease, but realistically cannot expect that. I suppose remission would be the next best thing, which is what I hope to achieve by taking ATD’s. I started taking them in March and after a few ups and downs, am close to being stabilized. I suspect, however, even if I achieve remission RAI may still be in my future, so I am trying to be ‘open minded’ about that. My goal is to get the best treatment I can as fast as I can so I can get on with my life. I think the AMA approved health care system we have in our country is the best in the world and I have chosen to go with traditional, approved methods of treatment. To choose other treatments that have not been proven would, in my opinion, be a waste of time (and money).
Coincidentally, my husband also had a stent about 11 years ago. It plugged up after about 4 months later, and he had to have bypass surgery. I was very thankful that his doctor was on top of things and we didn’t have to find out the hard way that the stent was no longer functional. The body does have remarkable healing abilities, and it’s great that your husband’s heart condition healed without medical/surgical intervention, but that is not the case with everyone.
My wish for you is that you have success in whatever method of treatment you choose.
Joy

[HonestBabe]

#1063312

Thanks Ewenme. I appreciate your good thoughts. I’m not against the traditional methods, just not sure they are the only ones I should look at. I consulted with a surgeon and he advised me to look at all the options, including integrative medicine, before making such an important decision. I think when it comes right down to it, I pray that God guides me to the right path to health. Joy and health to you too! HonestBabe.

[Ski]

#1063313

Just one last comment ~ good luck on your treatment, and please make sure that you are monitoring your thyroid hormone levels carefully throughout. If you achieve normal, stable thyroid hormone levels, then that’s the goal we’re looking for, and it would be GREAT. If your levels do not stabilize in the normal range, then please look carefully at your other options.

You might not believe it, but we were all in your position at one time, and we all wanted so much for there to be a way to heal rather than simply to treat. The way Graves’ works just isn’t like most other diseases ~ autoimmunity is a very odd bird, and even the doctors don’t fully understand what throws us into the disease state, so it’s hard to say that anyone has the "last word" yet. We’re not trying to be "negative Nelly," but we want to make sure that you remain healthy. Staying hyperthyroid is just not an option, so whatever you can do to correct that is a good thing. Please do let us know how your treatment goes, I’m interested to hear.

Oh, one last comment ~ if you have nodules, that’s not always Graves’, so I hope you have the diagnosis fully dialed in. As a matter of fact, if you have *hot* nodules that are pumping out extra thyroid hormone, that’s a separate condition. For treatment of that particular condition, you can actually use RAI to kill ONLY those hot nodules (since the rest of the thyroid typically responds to the drop in TSH by "not working," so the RAI only gets sucked up into the aberrant nodules), and the rest of your thyroid would kick in afterward to operate normally. Is it possible you have "hot" nodules instead of Graves’?

[HonestBabe]

#1063314

Thanks, Ski. Yes, I do have 2 hot nodules (one cold nodule and biopsied as clear)and my blood tests for Graves came up negative. I’m hearing mixed reports about the RAI treatment for hot nodules. My endo says I should do the RAI with the expectation that I will become hyPO instead of hyPER and likley have to go on Sinthroid permanently. I’m also hearing mixed things about being on Sinthroid, and Armour too, so I’m really at the crossroads of choosing which treatment. And I’m considering methimazole as an option too. I’m not struggling with symptoms. In fact, I feel quite normal. Thanks for all the good thoughts. I’ll post as things go along. This is a great site and I value all the input. HonestBabe.

[Loris]

#1063315

I have had Graves since 2000 and recently feel cured. I read "The China Study" and changed my eating. Within six weeks my bloodwork showed antibodies were normal. I also had Thyroid eye disease and that began changing around one week. People tell me that my eyes look normal now and they feel soooo much better. (I had both lid lag and exophthalmos.)
I find this new way of eating to be great. I will never go back. I eat no animal protein, because like the book states, my body thinks it is a foreign substance and goes into attack mode. Organ recipients always have to go on medication because of the same type problem the body fights the foreign protein.
It has now been 5 months since I’ve changed eating and I truly feel cured. My doctor was very happy for me and told me to come back in four months and if labs are still asgood then I will probably only see her once a year. I will see her again Dec 8th.
I am so happy that my sister told me about this book. I feel so lucky to have this answer and happy to share this. I hope you will give it a try. The book says to try it for a month.
We are having fun coming up with recipes and even Thanksgiving was easy. Yes, I cooked a turkey for son/husband and I made vegan dressing that was wonderful. They put gravy on it, I didn’t.

[Kimberly]

#1063316

Hello – I’m glad to hear that you are feeling well and that you had success with this program. I just wanted to add a couple of comments for others who might be reading…

First, while the foods we choose to put in our bodies absolutely will affect our overall health, dietery changes are not a substitute for conventional treatment for hypERthyroidism. Instead, this should complement our existing treatment protocol.

Also, I would recommend that patients check with a doctor before making any major changes in diet. Any time we are cutting major food groups out of our diet plan, we need to make sure that we are still getting adequate protein and important micronutrients like calcium.

Take care!

[HonestBabe]

#1063317

Question for Loris, and thanks for your post … Let me see if I understand you … since the year 2000 when you were diagnosed, and since being on The China Study diet, your thyroid disease has gone into remission? With no medications or treatments? I will take a look at The China Study. Thanks. You sound like you’re managing quite well, and it’s encouraging to know that looking at or trying sensible options are worthwhile. I wish you the best! HonestBabe.

[Loris]

#1063318

Hi, I had to have the radiation treatment in 2000. Then in2007 I had the eye problems and that is hard to deal with. At that time I had antibodies that were at 350 and I was told they need to be around 125, with no suggestions on how to do this. So I would go and every 6 months to get blood work and it did seem to be coming down, but if it didn’t get down lower I would have to have radiation again. Then I heard about giving up animal protein and WOW. Within one week my eye stopped the pulling sensation. In about six weeks it was time for blood tests, and I was told that everything was normal. The antibodies were exactly where the doctor wanted them.
I can tell you that I have loved eating this way and I find that my eating habits are still improving. My sisters and I got together at a beach house and cooked all weekend so we learned and shared lots of great ideas on making wonderful dishes, like French potato salad that uses Olive oil not mayo.
I also have a co-worker who was set to have radiation, but she refused because she had recently gone through breast cancer. She started eating lunch with me (Spinach SALADS) we have a great salad bar at the cafeteria. Anyway when she went back to doctor to tell her she had not done the treatment, she was expecting to be scolded, but the doctor told her it was fine because her labs showed she was fine. I need to ask her if she is off of the medicine for the Graves. She no longer shakes and is happier than I’ve seen her.
Please give this a try. I’m so happy about this, and I know I will always have graves. The book is pretty dry, you could read chapter on auto immune first, the book explains how we are these special people who develop a antibody that fights our own body. I wish you the best also! Lori

[Bobbi]

#1063319

So, to clarify: it appears that Loris had RAI for her hyperthyroidism in 2000, and developed the eye disease in 2007. At that time (2007) she found a book, written by a vegetarian, about a nutritional study of rural Chinese eating habits, and decided to adopt the eating patterns suggested in that book. And she believes it "cured" her.

I would suggest that if any of you are interested in the idea, that you do extensive research first, before buying either the book, or the suggestions in it. Why? Eating a healthy diet IS important to our health. Eating lots of fruits and vegetables (which is what vegans do) is recommended to ALL people, by most doctors. But suggesting that avoiding the ingestion of ALL animal proteins, will somehow allow anyone to beat disease (ANY diseases at all, btw) is, to my way of thinking, completely irresponsible. Hyperthyroidism can be LETHAL if not properly treated, and our treatment options DO work. Further, the suggestions about diet alone being responsible for the results of the epidemiological study in China ignores inconvenient (for the authors of the book) facts like: Masai people in Africa, who ingest a huge amount of animal protein, have no heart disease. Eskimos, whose diets have immense fat content, and very little plant protein content, also have little to no heart disease. The healthiest countries in Europe (Iceland and Switzerland, included in that) have people who ingest large amounts of animal protein. And, in China, where the original epidemiological study was done, the people have the worlds largest percentage of people with stomach cancer. Pesky facts like that, and others, have been ignored by the authors of the book suggested. In fact, the authors of the book drew hugely unwarranted conclusions from pieces of information gleaned from the study.

By all means, discuss with your doctors how to make your diet more healthy. We talk about eating nutritionally dense foods here on the board, because a disease which saps the body requires us to provide ourselves with better nutrition than perhaps we normally do. But do NOT believe that there is any easy, single way to beat disease with diet alone. More specifically, do NOT avoid treatment for your hyperthyroidism in order to try an extreme diet. It has never, ever been proven that diet, alone, can cure all health issues as the authors of this book suggest. Diet CAN make you healthIER. Diet alone does not cure.

[HonestBabe]

#1063320

For Loris and Bobbi,
Bobbi, you make some important comments. Thanks for that. I wonder … is not eating any animal protein (including dairy) so radical? I mean vegetarians avoid all animal protein don’t they? They get their protein from beans, maybe fish? I do see that there’s some criticism of The China Study and yes, we should read carefully and approach with caution.

May I ask you, Loris, just what do you eat? Are you doing the typical vegetarian diet of beans, veggies, fruits, and grain? No animal protein, no dairy, no fish either? I think it’s very significant that the diet made such a difference in Loris’s health. I’m off all diary now because it’s quite high in iodine which is bad for hypers. Drinking almond milk and feeling better. Sometimes just a diet adjustment can be helpful. Lori, can you give us some info on what you eat? THanks. HonestBabe.

[Loris]

#1063321

Honestbabe & Bobbi

I heard about the report and immediately stopped all animal protein. I eat lots of beans and brown rice. I try to get enough protein, I started eating steel cut oats for breakfast with berries and almond milk, spinach salad at lunch and weekends
I will have hummus and tabouleh and I now saute veg in coconut oil. You do have to cook more and chopping never ends. I use lots of herbs and spices like cumin. I eat lots of olives, avacados, sweet potatoes, tomatoes.
white tea every day. This could go on and on. I eat lots and I like this better every day.
I agree and trust that NO one reading this would believe that simple diet changes alone would work for ALL cases, there are so many stages. However, I want people to try this at whatever stage and see the improvements diet can make while ALSO following doctors treatments.
I know that I used to get crazy starving hunger and that has STOPPED. I think its because I’m getting nutrients that I needed and wasn’t getting.

I was thinking today about all the things that have changed. My muscles are strong again, cramps have stopped. My eyes are normal and I do plan to get the measurements again. My skin is NOT looking old and it has the color back. Yes, even sleep is so much better and that effects my mood so much.
I understand the concerns and maybe me and co-worker are just lucky, but it really feels like I have to get this info out there. My co worker confirmed it for ME. She had also been scheduled to get a defibulator inserted, because her heart was working at only 45%. When she was tested it had improved to 56% and they told her she wouldn’t have to do it. I don’t think she been as hardcore as I had been and she still improved sooo much.

Oh, I found the book by C. Campbell PHD in June of this year. (Pres Clinton found this book in March and he is now vegan, you may have seen that news.) I didn’t lose weight the way he did.

[saumya]

#1063322

Hi all!

Apologies in advance for hitting a lot of the previous comments at one time. Its the engineer in me!

I’d like to point out a few things about definitions:
Vegan = no animal protein
Vegetarian = includes dairy, may/may not include eggs
Pescatarian = includes dairy, eggs and fish
Omnivore = everything that moves or doesn’t move ” title=”Very Happy” />

With regards to the China Study, as a vegetarian for 19 years, I can assure you that living in moderation is far more effective than becoming an unbalanced vegan. So, please, please, if you decide to become a vegan make sure you watch your protein, vitamin and inflammatory marker levels. Please understand that I am not against any particular dietary plan, instead I’m against the massive over-ingestion seen in most American homes. A lot of the reason why people who are new converts to a vegetarian/vegan diet see so many improvements in their health is that these diets have the added benefit of curtailing caloric over-indulgence. Mostly ’cause you’ve got to cook so much!!! Oh, and President Clinton is not a vegan; he eats fish periodically.

On another note, It is NOT true that the body responds to animal proteins by "attacking" them. Instead, the breakdown products of EXCESS animal protein (which is the standard in most American diets) can make molecules that in some cases may be somewhat pro-inflammatory. Do you see the issue caused by "can", "some", "may"? The same molecule that is attacked in a number of these books/studies (arachidonic acid) is ESSENTIAL to life. You cannot survive without this molecule and it is not available from most plants. And, along the same lines, removing all iodine from your diet is not good for you in the long run. While EXCESS levels of iodine can negatively affect hypER, your body requires iodine to function normally.

With respect to Ewenme’s comment about acupuncture… it must be remembered that "alternative" medical treatments are only alternative HERE. These treatments (acupuncture, Ayurvedic, homepathy, etc.) have been in existence for centuries, even millenia, in other countries and have always been highly individualized. So the "proven effectiveness" theory doesn’t really hold water for a number of these treatments since it is impossible to apply research study standards to patient-specific therapies. Incidentally, the biomedical engineering and pharmaceutical fields are facing that same dilemma as more and more of our cutting-edge therapies have improved by becoming patient-specific.

I am currently working with an integrative medicine team at the University of Arizona medical center. They have all been trained in classical Western medicine (which is primarily an allopathic approach) and have then specialized in how to add more holistic treatments. A number of institutions and hospitals across the U.S. have similarly trained physicians who can direct and monitor your treatment. Since they are board-certified M.D.s, you shouldn’t have any problems with your insurance.

Hope this helps! Sorry for spewing so much info, but my good eye days are few and far between. ” title=”Sad” /> Good luck to everyone and happy holidays!!!

[Author]

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